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 Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 6:08 pm Post subject: Re: Any ex christians here? |
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"Gordon Hudson" <gordonhudsonnu@googlemail.com> a écrit dans le message de news:
e1ea1411-b74a-4e63-a978-0f226a915145@m73g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
| Hello
|
| The most common reaction from Christian friends since I stopped
| believing* has been to claim that I could not have been a proper
| christian or I would not have been able to stop believing.
| This seems to allow them to go on in their own faith without having to
| address how I could have lost mine or why I might have come to a
| different conclusion from theirs.
|
| In practice this means that people cross to the other side of the
| street to avoid me and have totally stopped communicating with me. I
| lost an entire social network overnight simply because I told the
| truth and said I didn't believe in God any more.
|
| There are two ways I have tried to cope with this rejection:
|
| 1. I have kept reminding myself that the friends I had were
| conditional friends who only had a relationship with me because we
| shared the same beliefs.
|
| 2. I have made a concious effort to make new friends by using the time
| I used to spend on religious activities to do other things.
|
| Its still not easy though.
|
| The thing that I don't understand is that they normally go looking for
| people who don't believe and want to associate with them. I guess I
| must be second hand goods now!
|
| Maybe they think I have rejected God, but its much simpler than that,
| I just realised that God does not exist so there is nothing actually
| to reject. It was all rather untraumatic, more like "oh, God doesn't
| exist after all" rather than some Damascus road experience.
|
| Is there anyone else here who has had to cope with this sort of
| cultish behaviour after leaving the church?
I think there's a difference in leaving the church when I did - in my teens -
and leaving a church as an adult. As an adult, much of one's social life can
revolve both around the institution and the friends you have through that
institution. To those 'friends' and colleagues in the church environment it
would seem more of a 'rejection' coming from a mature adult, than from an
impetuous teen. Not that that is any excuse for their behaviour towards you.
I think I might find your 'friends' attitude somewhat comforting in a way - it
would reinforce my suspicion that Christianity was not bringing its followers -
those you seem to be in contact with anyway - a great deal in the way of wisdom,
generosity of spirit, tolerance. It also shows that believers in personal gods,
despite sometimes paying lip service to the notion that there many different
paths leading to the same destination, are in practice followers of an exclusive
religion with limited respect for the alternatives.
All the best. As you intimate, atheism doesn't allow the easy, 'everything goes'
lifestyle that Chrstians would prefer to believe of we infidels. The reality is
that we live in the knowledge that it is highly unlikely that there is a
catch-all, sin-forgiving, eternal life-awarding, omnibenevolent daddy figure up
there to look after us either now, or after we die. This means that we have to
rely much on our own judgment to live in a manner roughly along the lines of
doing 'unto others as you would have them do unto you'. We get a tough, one
chance only life, when consciousness ceases that's it folks. What's more, we
can't even have one big party - during the minute drop in the ocean of time that
we are lucky enough to be aware, we are compelled to behave in a moral fashion
(evolved behaviour traits, reciprocal altruism, etc).
When DILV goes on about our choosing the easy, amoral option - I'm afraid he's
about as mistaken as he could be. The reverse is in fact true.
pga |
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Steve Marshall
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| Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 2:27 am Post subject: Re: Any ex christians here? |
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|
"mark" <no-onehere@noads.com> wrote
| Quote: |
Steve..... apologies if this sounds rude, it isn't meant to be.. but if
you had followed the link to gordons blog you will have seen his picture
and where he lives (..scotland)..
|
Ah, Sorry, no I didn't. I can't be arsed with blogs and a tend not to click
on posted links anyway, as either they're to some Youtube thing which is
pointless trying to look at with a dialup connection - or it's to a page
that takes forever to download - or it is to something that isn't really
relevant.
| Quote: |
It's a pity that we do not offer him the courtesy of trying to understand
where he is at and coming from and at least take the trouble to read the
links...
|
I think we did try and understand where he's coming from. Just because I
didn't click on a link doesn't mean I ignored his pints in some way.
| Quote: |
I detect an enormous struggle for him and I applaud his braveness in
opening up in a group like this...
|
True. There are some parts of Scotland that are very religious still. I
remember holidaying in Skye a few years back. You couldn't do much on a
Sunday.
| Quote: |
As I said, if it sounds rude, please accept my apologies, it isn't meant
to be.
Anyway, off to the IOW festival......enjoy the day..
|
I think I tried to reply in a reasonable manner. If I missed the link it
isn't so bad as some areas of Britain can be very religious too - almost
like some parts of America. Just down the road from where I live is a town
that was declared Britain's most religious place, on account of the number
of churches per head. I know what some folk can be like.
Steve M |
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Steve Marshall
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| Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 2:37 am Post subject: Re: Any ex christians here? |
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|
"Christopher A. Lee" <calee@optonline.net> wrote
| Quote: |
I don't know Lothian - when I visited Scotland I stayed around
Glasgow. All I really know is that Hearts play in Edinburgh!
|
Livingston is in between the two. It's kind of a weird place - it feels a
bit isolated from the other towns and I know people who have felt very
trapped there. I once worked at one of those 'Silicon Glenn' places just
down the road at Linlithgo. Couldn't get a bus back to Edinburgh. There was
one that went flyign past and one or two that stopped that were going in the
wrong direction. In the end I walked in to town and managed to find railway
station which had relular trains in to Edinburgh. No one has suggested
catching a train, rather than a bus.
Steve M |
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Gordon Hudson
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| Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 1:23 pm Post subject: Re: Any ex christians here? |
|
|
On 15 Jun, 11:35, "Steve Marshall" <s...@atmosBlockA.plus.com> wrote:
| Quote: |
"Gordon Hudson" <gordonhudso...@googlemail.com> wrote
In practice this means that people cross to the other side of the
street to avoid me and have totally stopped communicating with me. I
lost an entire social network overnight simply because I told the
truth and said I didn't believe in God any more.
If Christians behaved properly that wouldn't happen.
I guess you're in America(?) as people tend not to be so anti-atheistic here
in UK, but there is a minority of people with funny views.
Some people will take it that if you are rejecting God , you are reject them
and their views. They can't come to terms with the fact they may have been
living a lie adn don't like havin gtheir lives brought into question.
|
I think that is probably it.
I am actually in the UK though.
| Quote: |
Maybe they think I have rejected God, but its much simpler than that,
I just realised that God does not exist so there is nothing actually
to reject. It was all rather untraumatic, more like "oh, God doesn't
exist after all" rather than some Damascus road experience.
But what made you come to that conclusion?
|
Inability to get answers to some fairly straightforward questions.
More than that, being told that I couldn't ask the questions.
Gordon |
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Gordon Hudson
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| Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 1:24 pm Post subject: Re: Any ex christians here? |
|
|
On 15 Jun, 11:46, "mark" <no-oneh...@noads.com> wrote:
| Quote: |
X-No-Archive: yes
"Gordon Hudson" <gordonhudso...@googlemail.com> wrote in message
news:e1ea1411-b74a-4e63-a978-0f226a915145@m73g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
The most common reaction from Christian friends since I stopped
believing* has been to claim that I could not have been a proper
christian or I would not have been able to stop believing.
This seems to allow them to go on in their own faith without having to
address how I could have lost mine or why I might have come to a
different conclusion from theirs.
Hello and a warm welcome gordon......
You have, although it probably doesn't feel like it at the moment, taken the
most positive step in your life ...
In practice this means that people cross to the other side of the
street to avoid me and have totally stopped communicating with me. I
lost an entire social network overnight simply because I told the
truth and said I didn't believe in God any more.
I'm sure the crossing the street is a (christian !) allegory but you should
turn the whole idea and notion about and consider those people who once were
'friends' as NEVER being real friends... something that can happen to all
of us during our lives. [Good] Friends really do not come and go on a whim
of belief. It does show the shallowness of the previous relationships...
There are two ways I have tried to cope with this rejection:
1. I have kept reminding myself that the friends I had were
conditional friends who only had a relationship with me because we
shared the same beliefs.
2. I have made a concious effort to make new friends by using the time
I used to spend on religious activities to do other things.
Remember this, gordon, there are probably fifty times more non christian,
or non believers, than there are believers (..in the uk, at least) and it is
a truism to say that finding those with similar ideas and notions is not
going to be so difficult.
Its still not easy though.
The thing that I don't understand is that they normally go looking for
people who don't believe and want to associate with them. I guess I
must be second hand goods now!
Maybe they think I have rejected God, but its much simpler than that,
I just realised that God does not exist so there is nothing actually
to reject. It was all rather untraumatic, more like "oh, God doesn't
exist after all" rather than some Damascus road experience.
I read your link/blog and identified many of the traits in religion that
those of us *outside* of it see so very clearly. It is one of the things we
can become vociferous in highlighting.
Faith IS irrational and when organised into a religion becomes subject to
the same factors that any organisation succumbs to - namely, power and
corruption.
Religion is perpetuated at many levels...from capturing children BEFORE the
age of reason and imposing indoctrination right up to the mindless 'just
believe' advice to adults who begin to see through the very thin facade of a
god. In here, as in the real world, the fundamentalists are the most
extraordinarily obvious example of myopic faith and belief, trotting out the
same repetitive diatribe endlessly, avoiding coherent debate because there
can be NO debate with people who hold absolute beliefs on grounds that have
been shown to be utterly false.
You would think that the nonsense (..for example) of a world that is merely
around 6000 years old would destroy anyones faith - the faith achieved by
taking the bible as the literal truth - since we have the knowledge and
evidence that it is far, far older... but no! They continue with such
assertion in the face of evidence.!! How good is that..? It's the
'emperors new clothes' ....they *know* it cannot be so but HAVE to believe
it to shore up the nonsensical position they have found themselves in...
Is there anyone else here who has had to cope with this sort of
cultish behaviour after leaving the church?
I cannot speak for those who were once in a church...... I never have
been.. but 'cultish' is exactly the word that describes the phenomenon, in
my view.
Welcome again, to the REAL world where every day can be lived with
admiration and wonder at the world around you.. safe in the knowledge that
when the final day comes you will have seen and done all you could, left a
legacy, perhaps, of children and safe that it will be over. You will not
have had to spend your entire life preparing for some promise of another
one.......
The age old foundating principal of religion...
Enjoy the rest of what you have and don't look back into false hopes and
promises..
good luck....... and please stick around. I'm sure you have a lot to
offer a group such as this
|
I will do, even if I have been slow to reply to all these kind
comments. |
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Gordon Hudson
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| Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 1:26 pm Post subject: Re: Any ex christians here? |
|
|
On 16 Jun, 22:27, "Steve Marshall" <s...@atmosBlockA.plus.com> wrote:
| Quote: |
"mark" <no-oneh...@noads.com> wrote
Steve..... apologies if this sounds rude, it isn't meant to be.. but if
you had followed the link to gordons blog you will have seen his picture
and where he lives (..scotland)..
Ah, Sorry, no I didn't. I can't be arsed with blogs and a tend not to click
on posted links anyway, as either they're to some Youtube thing which is
pointless trying to look at with a dialup connection - or it's to a page
that takes forever to download - or it is to something that isn't really
relevant.
It's a pity that we do not offer him the courtesy of trying to understand
where he is at and coming from and at least take the trouble to read the
links...
I think we did try and understand where he's coming from. Just because I
didn't click on a link doesn't mean I ignored his pints in some way.
I detect an enormous struggle for him and I applaud his braveness in
opening up in a group like this...
True. There are some parts of Scotland that are very religious still. I
remember holidaying in Skye a few years back. You couldn't do much on a
Sunday.
As I said, if it sounds rude, please accept my apologies, it isn't meant
to be.
Anyway, off to the IOW festival......enjoy the day..
I think I tried to reply in a reasonable manner. If I missed the link it
isn't so bad as some areas of Britain can be very religious too - almost
like some parts of America. Just down the road from where I live is a town
that was declared Britain's most religious place, on account of the number
of churches per head. I know what some folk can be like.
Steve M
|
We have Orange Lodge and lots of fairly fundamentalist churches, in
fact there is not much in the way of liberal christianity here because
the traditional churches decided to church share here and dont have
the presence they have in most towns. |
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Steve Marshall
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Jun 19, 2008 2:59 am Post subject: Re: Any ex christians here? |
|
|
"Gordon Hudson" <gordonhudsonnu@googlemail.com> wrote
| Quote: |
I think that is probably it.
I am actually in the UK though.
|
Yes, sorry I missed that bit.
| Quote: |
But what made you come to that conclusion?
Inability to get answers to some fairly straightforward questions.
|
Yeah, that's the start if not the decider. Even getting a reasonable
description of what God actually is, is one I've found very lacking.
I also look to history where different cultures have had all manner of gods
which have been and gone. You can see how religion, and gods along with it,
have evolved over the years. After some very complicated religous with a god
for every event, they settled on the simpler system of a single god. But
even then the Christians want ot have three - but that's really only one.
(?!?!)
| Quote: |
More than that, being told that I couldn't ask the questions.
Hmmm. Now that's just not right. |
Steve M |
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graham
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Jun 19, 2008 3:49 am Post subject: Re: Any ex christians here? |
|
|
"Steve Marshall" <sdm@atmosBlockA.plus.com> wrote in message
news:er2dnddyfbTXGMTVRVnyggA@posted.plusnet...
| Quote: |
"Gordon Hudson" <gordonhudsonnu@googlemail.com> wrote
I think that is probably it.
I am actually in the UK though.
Yes, sorry I missed that bit.
But what made you come to that conclusion?
Inability to get answers to some fairly straightforward questions.
Yeah, that's the start if not the decider. Even getting a reasonable
description of what God actually is, is one I've found very lacking.
I also look to history where different cultures have had all manner of
gods which have been and gone. You can see how religion, and gods along
with it, have evolved over the years. After some very complicated religous
with a god for every event, they settled on the simpler system of a single
god. But even then the Christians want ot have three - but that's really
only one. (?!?!)
Not to mention all the djinns and demons - oops, I mean angels! |
Graham
> |
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Gordon Hudson
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Jun 19, 2008 8:11 am Post subject: Re: Any ex christians here? |
|
|
On 18 Jun, 22:59, "Steve Marshall" <s...@atmosBlockA.plus.com> wrote:
| Quote: |
"Gordon Hudson" <gordonhudso...@googlemail.com> wrote
I think that is probably it.
I am actually in the UK though.
Yes, sorry I missed that bit.
But what made you come to that conclusion?
Inability to get answers to some fairly straightforward questions.
Yeah, that's the start if not the decider. Even getting a reasonable
description of what God actually is, is one I've found very lacking.
I also look to history where different cultures have had all manner of gods
which have been and gone. You can see how religion, and gods along with it,
have evolved over the years. After some very complicated religous with a god
for every event, they settled on the simpler system of a single god. But
even then the Christians want ot have three - but that's really only one.
(?!?!)
More than that, being told that I couldn't ask the questions.
Hmmm. Now that's just not right.
Steve M
|
Here is one for starters:
Why is god apparently obsessed with whether men have foreskins or not?
I mean if he designed their bodies why did he create foreskins in the
first place?
It is either totally absurd or not true and if its not true then it
calls into question lots of other beliefs that come from the bible.
And yes, god is pretty obsessive about circumsicion in the old
testament.
Another question is where did God come from?
The standard answer is that he is eternal, but actually it doesn't say
that anywhere in the bible, its a theologians addition to deal with
the problem caused by that question.
Then you get all the theories built on suppositions built on
traditions.
It all accounts to a lot of old nonsense when you examine it
disapassionately.
The only reason a lot of my friends force themselves to continue
believing (which in my opinion is not faith at all but just agreeing
to something for the sake of it) is because they see it asd a sort of
house insurance. It might be true so might as well go along with it.
In the process their enjoyment of life is considerably restricted, not
by morality but just because everything is focussed on the time after
death and not enjoying what life has to offer.
It is extremely sad. |
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Ian Smith
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Jun 19, 2008 11:00 am Post subject: Re: Any ex christians here? |
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|
graham wrote:
| Quote: |
I also look to history where different cultures have had all manner of
gods which have been and gone. You can see how religion, and gods along
with it, have evolved over the years. After some very complicated religous
with a god for every event, they settled on the simpler system of a single
god. But even then the Christians want ot have three - but that's really
only one. (?!?!)
Not to mention all the djinns and demons - oops, I mean angels!
|
.... and don't forget Satan! God put him into being, as part of
creation itself but now apparently can't do anything about him. I
suspect they came to some sort of 'power sharing' cartel arrangement
- the sort of thing you get in a monopoly.
regards, Ian |
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Ken
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Jun 19, 2008 2:20 pm Post subject: Re: Any ex christians here? |
|
|
On Jun 19, 1:11 am, Gordon Hudson <gordonhudso...@googlemail.com>
wrote:
| Quote: |
In the process their enjoyment of life is considerably restricted, not
by morality but just because everything is focussed on the time after
death and not enjoying what life has to offer.
It is extremely sad.
|
That statements fits this group's fundy troll to a T.
He rails against his concept of "earthly pleasures" that he sees
others enjoy freely, as he waits enjoy his demise, waits for the
nothingness of death
Not only sad but totally preverse |
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Alwyn
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Jun 20, 2008 9:23 pm Post subject: Re: Any ex christians here? |
|
|
In article
<2067f903-78b9-48a3-8f35-7882bb646005@d1g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>,
Gordon Hudson <gordonhudsonnu@googlemail.com> wrote:
| Quote: |
Why is god apparently obsessed with whether men have foreskins or not?
I mean if he designed their bodies why did he create foreskins in the
first place?
It is either totally absurd or not true and if its not true then it
calls into question lots of other beliefs that come from the bible.
And yes, god is pretty obsessive about circumsicion in the old
testament.
|
I think I can answer that one!
Jews are God's people, and he asserts ownership of the males (who are
the ones that really matter) in the same way a farmer pierces the ears
of his animals.
(There are malicious stories that YHWH wanted the whole thing cut off,
but Abraham managed to persuade him the idea had a poor future. Anyway,
it means God gets a piece of each Jew's manhood, which is supposedly his
most precious possession next to his sons, and God, if you remember,
decided not to let Abraham go ahead and sacrifice his firstborn.)
Paul determined that mandatory circumcision was not good PR for
Christianity and arranged with God to have the requirement dropped.
Diehards like Peter were reportedly unimpressed.
| Quote: |
Another question is where did God come from?
The standard answer is that he is eternal, but actually it doesn't say
that anywhere in the bible, its a theologians addition to deal with
the problem caused by that question.
Then you get all the theories built on suppositions built on
traditions.
It all accounts to a lot of old nonsense when you examine it
disapassionately.
|
Unlike us, God is not bound by space and time, so he never had a
beginning in time, nor will he have an end. The idea of God as a
boundless spirit seems to me well established.
| Quote: |
The only reason a lot of my friends force themselves to continue
believing (which in my opinion is not faith at all but just agreeing
to something for the sake of it) is because they see it asd a sort of
house insurance. It might be true so might as well go along with it.
In the process their enjoyment of life is considerably restricted, not
by morality but just because everything is focussed on the time after
death and not enjoying what life has to offer.
It is extremely sad.
|
That appears to be a somewhat unsophisticated version of Pascal's Wager.
Pascal did insist, however, that if you bet on God and he turned out not
to exist, then you lose nothing.
Alwyn |
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Christopher A. Lee
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Jun 20, 2008 10:44 pm Post subject: Re: Any ex christians here? |
|
|
On Fri, 20 Jun 2008 17:23:45 +0100, Alwyn <alwyn@dircon.co.uk> wrote:
| Quote: |
In article
2067f903-78b9-48a3-8f35-7882bb646005@d1g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>,
Gordon Hudson <gordonhudsonnu@googlemail.com> wrote:
Why is god apparently obsessed with whether men have foreskins or not?
I mean if he designed their bodies why did he create foreskins in the
first place?
It is either totally absurd or not true and if its not true then it
calls into question lots of other beliefs that come from the bible.
And yes, god is pretty obsessive about circumsicion in the old
testament.
I think I can answer that one!
Jews are God's people, and he asserts ownership of the males (who are
the ones that really matter) in the same way a farmer pierces the ears
of his animals.
(There are malicious stories that YHWH wanted the whole thing cut off,
but Abraham managed to persuade him the idea had a poor future. Anyway,
it means God gets a piece of each Jew's manhood, which is supposedly his
most precious possession next to his sons, and God, if you remember,
decided not to let Abraham go ahead and sacrifice his firstborn.)
Paul determined that mandatory circumcision was not good PR for
Christianity and arranged with God to have the requirement dropped.
Diehards like Peter were reportedly unimpressed.
Another question is where did God come from?
The standard answer is that he is eternal, but actually it doesn't say
that anywhere in the bible, its a theologians addition to deal with
the problem caused by that question.
Then you get all the theories built on suppositions built on
traditions.
It all accounts to a lot of old nonsense when you examine it
disapassionately.
Unlike us, God is not bound by space and time, so he never had a
beginning in time, nor will he have an end. The idea of God as a
boundless spirit seems to me well established.
The only reason a lot of my friends force themselves to continue
believing (which in my opinion is not faith at all but just agreeing
to something for the sake of it) is because they see it asd a sort of
house insurance. It might be true so might as well go along with it.
In the process their enjoyment of life is considerably restricted, not
by morality but just because everything is focussed on the time after
death and not enjoying what life has to offer.
It is extremely sad.
That appears to be a somewhat unsophisticated version of Pascal's Wager.
Pascal did insist, however, that if you bet on God and he turned out not
to exist, then you lose nothing.
|
And he was as wrong then as the idiots who use it as a smug attempted
last word, are today.
Because he and they imagine there can only be one possible god to
believe in, and only one possible carrot and stick. And stupidly
project this onto everybody else.
Anybody who uses Pascal's wager should become a Muslim because at
least there's sex in the Islamic Paradise.
Any man, that is. I don't think women get the same reward.
>Alwyn |
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Alwyn
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Jun 20, 2008 11:32 pm Post subject: Re: Any ex christians here? |
|
|
In article <soqn54pg601t6afc6aqf0cvuo453c5f43i@4ax.com>,
Christopher A. Lee <calee@optonline.net> wrote:
| Quote: |
On Fri, 20 Jun 2008 17:23:45 +0100, Alwyn <alwyn@dircon.co.uk> wrote:
That appears to be a somewhat unsophisticated version of Pascal's Wager.
Pascal did insist, however, that if you bet on God and he turned out not
to exist, then you lose nothing.
And he was as wrong then as the idiots who use it as a smug attempted
last word, are today.
|
I'd be more generous to Pascal than that. He was of the opinion that the
intellect could tell us nothing about whether God existed or not, so the
probabilities were even. Today, I would argue, the case for atheism is a
lot stronger.
| Quote: |
Because he and they imagine there can only be one possible god to
believe in, and only one possible carrot and stick. And stupidly
project this onto everybody else.
|
Attempts to deal with that objection are described here:
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pascal's_Wager#Assumes_that_the_correct_god
_is_worshiped>
| Quote: |
Anybody who uses Pascal's wager should become a Muslim because at
least there's sex in the Islamic Paradise.
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It beats playing the harp, I suppose!
| Quote: |
Any man, that is. I don't think women get the same reward.
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Yes, i've often wondered what reward Mulsim females are supposed to get.
Alwyn |
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Christopher A. Lee
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| Posted: Fri Jun 20, 2008 11:56 pm Post subject: Re: Any ex christians here? |
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On Fri, 20 Jun 2008 19:32:54 +0100, Alwyn <alwyn@dircon.co.uk> wrote:
| Quote: |
In article <soqn54pg601t6afc6aqf0cvuo453c5f43i@4ax.com>,
Christopher A. Lee <calee@optonline.net> wrote:
On Fri, 20 Jun 2008 17:23:45 +0100, Alwyn <alwyn@dircon.co.uk> wrote:
That appears to be a somewhat unsophisticated version of Pascal's Wager.
Pascal did insist, however, that if you bet on God and he turned out not
to exist, then you lose nothing.
And he was as wrong then as the idiots who use it as a smug attempted
last word, are today.
I'd be more generous to Pascal than that. He was of the opinion that the
intellect could tell us nothing about whether God existed or not, so the
probabilities were even. Today, I would argue, the case for atheism is a
lot stronger.
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A basic mistake for somebody who is supposed to have been a towering
intellect.
| Quote: |
Because he and they imagine there can only be one possible god to
believe in, and only one possible carrot and stick. And stupidly
project this onto everybody else.
Attempts to deal with that objection are described here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pascal's_Wager#Assumes_that_the_correct_god
_is_worshiped
Anybody who uses Pascal's wager should become a Muslim because at
least there's sex in the Islamic Paradise.
It beats playing the harp, I suppose!
Any man, that is. I don't think women get the same reward.
Yes, i've often wondered what reward Mulsim females are supposed to get.
|
72 inexperienced male virgins whose inexperience and virginity is
magically restored each time?
>Alwyn |
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